1 Larapinta Place, Glenhaven

Glenhaven Road cannot support any additional traffic or places of worship!
I understood the council was reviewing development applications for further places of worship? Has council changed its mind?
I understand that this place of worship will also e a teaching centre, is that correct? Having been to Turkey and lived near a mosque, I ask if we need noise restrictions in place?
The council is a rapidly changing the Hills and its culture.
Disappointed

Hi Robyn,
Unfortunately it looks like it will go ahead, unless we all (everybody in the area) unite and send a clear message to the politicians. I do not put my trust in councils, the reality is that they are politicians and they have to be driven by securing votes and funding. So councilors will go to meetings and tell everyone what they want to hear, but they do this with all parties. They have to show that they have tried everything they could, to avoid any backlash during re-election. The other challenge we have, If I’m not mistaken, this DA will be over 5 mil and will go to State for review and approval.
Some People and all the ‘do-gooders’ will be very quick at pulling out the anti-discrimination card again, I personally couldn’t care less whether it’s for Islam (Sunni or Shia), Buddhist, Catholic, Baptist, Protestant or any of the other 150 Christian offshoots or even if it was a community center for Atheists, it should not be allowed in a residential area around Glenhaven Rd. Council have already approved the substantial extension to the church opposite the shops which is almost complete, as well as a new child care center. The Road will be widened to 4 lanes, many thousands of additional cars will be using the road once all developments around North Kellyville are complete and they expect us to have to accommodate hundreds of cars trying to park or leave the mosque at around the same time.
I get frustrated when councilors reassure us that any DA will have to comply with rules and restrictions. Yes sure, the councilors will be there every day to make sure only the approved 100 cars will be allowed to come into the area. I feel so sorry for the residents living on Larapinta or near the site, they have invested millions of dollars in their homes only to now be forced to live a daily nightmare.

I am genuinely concerned about what this structure will bring to a semi-rural suburb. The surrounding roads couldn’t cope with the increase of traffic, especially during the holiday period where the organisation will operate on extended hours. The surrounding roads have already witnessed multiple fatalities to date, and a building like this with a high volume of people attending on a regulars basis, will only create a higher risk for further accidents and lives lost. Furthermore being zoned as a semi-rural area I am concerned about the street scape and what a building of this magnitude will mean for our native and natural suburb, both on a visual level and for our natural wildlife. Finally, the ongoing noise that this will create will be amplified due to the natural layout of the suburb, forcing people up to kilometres away, to be awoken and disturbed. This building would be a complete mistake in this area and I strongly oppose it.

As a 30 year resident of Glenhaven its good to see some diversity entering the area. There is obviously demand for such a venue in the area. There is the Chinese Christian Church at 194 Glenhaven Rd and Emmanuel Anglican Church at 31A Glenhaven Rd. There is already considerable flow through traffic on Glenhaven rd. but that is due to Nth Kellyville and other developments that have been approved and developed. Very few patrons of this venue will be attending during business hours as most of them work. And they wont be travelling at speed up and down the street as current traffic does, they are god fearing people after all.The road is already a main thoroughfare. We'll just have to accept that and the ongoing noise associated with the traffic. I dont recall any objections to the re-development of the Arcare Glenhaven Aged Care or the re-development and expansion of the Emmanuel Anglican Church. I do however remember strong opposition to the development of the Imam Hasan Islamic Centre at the time including acts of vandalism etc.. turns out all the neighbours now say they are the best neighbours ever. So much so that the Hills Shire Times publish an article on the fact AND the Centre even generously gave $5000 for this year’s (2017) CBD Anzac Dawn Service after Sydney’s Lord Mayor Clover Moore refused a grant for our brave Diggers despite having $574.3 million in the bank at the time. (Ref - https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/islamic-centre-donates-anzac-cash-after-sydney-council-denied-5000-grant-for-dawn-service/news-story/47c0ae1d535ab2a27c4516fda6a82802).

Hi, not everyone in this suburb has a fear of Muslims ! There are already plenty of Christian churches around, so why not a mosque on land that is zoned for religious use and has been bought specifically for that purpose ?

Australia is a secular country and Christian religions shouldn't get preferential treatment vs others.

I suspect all the talk about "traffic" is simply dog-whistle racism, so needs to be ignored.

As a resident within 500 metres of the planned DA I am appalled that this type of industrial/commercial development could be built in such close proximity to show homes that people have invested millions of $$$ in. This is a semi rural road way overused with no curb & gutter, poor lighting & failing infrastructure. The extra traffic in allowing the build that this DA would bring is absolutely absurd. I have read all the reports & they are that fictitious that it makes me think the people who wrote them still believe in the tooth fairy. In peak hours only 14 second delays leaving larapinta is crazy & that's not taking into account the extra 118 cars coming out of the planned DA from larapinta into Glenhaven road . Some mornings & afternoons of can take 30-40 seconds just to get out of my driveway. Also the report on the effluent waste is Flored. There is no septic system anywhere in the world that could cater for the shear amount of members suggested. Even though they believe it will be pumped out weekly I don't believe that for 1 seconds. Imagine the damage to the local wildlife & natives that this could cause. Lastly I will go on record saying I don't care if Santa Claus wanted to build his workshop here this type of land in a residential area should be for that only. A residential home not a colossus of a building that will kill the local streetscape.

This is absolutely ridiculous. To think a development like this which resembles a commercial facility is even being considered is beyond me.

This particular location sits on an already busy road, not too mention the surrounding residents.

Unfortunately this road in recent years has already taken a life, a life way to young. To imagine the traffic flowing from early morning to late at night is simply inappropriate for the area.

This is not about religion and I pity anyone using that line, if you can’t see this proposal doesn’t suit the area nor does it the Infrastrucutre.

Councillors no,no,no. I have been to every meeting that has been on this subject. I thought that there were to be NO more places of worship or training centres to be allowed in the Glenhaven area due traffic and noise issues. What happened to the application for this it was lodged before Christmas 2017. ??? What happen to all our votes getting the right people to do the right Job. I am So Very disappointed that we have been screwed over by your decisions again. Glenhaven has to be the best suburb around the hills and council wants to turn that into another money making issue by letting this go ahead. The whole of Glenhaven will fight against this DA

I lived a no 4 ( now known as no 3A) Larapinta Place GLENHAVEN for 10 years and I can tell you first hand that I had to take my life into my own hands on several occasions trying to exit the street in the morning while leaving early for work. Cars travel at high speed coming around a blind bend just between Bannerman and LARAPINTA place and with the amount of increased traffic in the area in recent years the situation is only going to be much worse.
The other consideration is the beautiful Flora and fauna in the area. There is a large population of Lace Monitor Goannas that live in the bush in LARAPINTA and my children and I have seen them regularly sun baking on the road on LARAPINTA and I have seen several in the trees and coming out of the bush land from no 1 and no 2 LARAPINTA place. There is also a large population of white owl in the Street. Has any consideration been taken for the poor animals that live in this beautiful location and the impact it will have with hundreds of cars going in and out to this proposed building.
In light of the fact that a young 14-year-old boy was killed just around the corner from Larapinta place only a few years back (the anniversary of his death only a few days ago ) also needs to be remembered. Glenhaven Rd can not sustain the cars that are already on it let alone adding a few more hundred into the mix!

1 Larapinta Place is not the place to build such a large place of worship. Glenhaven Road is already extremely busy and dangerous (my son had a serious accident at the roundabout at Bannerman Rd and Glenhaven Drive a couple of years ago). It is a residential area, why can’t council provide the HDMS with a suitable area in a commercial area for the mosque? It makes no sense that residential land can be purchased and then applications like this made. Isn’t that is what zoning is for? The Hargraves nursery site is going to be sold, it already is a commercially zoned operation and has the parking, isn’t that an option? We all deserve to be protected by the Hills council as rate payers to know that this couldn’t happen next door to us. Have a mosque by all means but place it in a commercial area. Hillsong Church is a perfect example.

Hi, as an ex muslim, not sure what is the intention of such an investment? based on the ABS figures number of Muslim population in this area doesn't indicate any requirement for such a place, is this planned for a population move or other purposes?!! Surely local resident wont tolerate this. Also, local Gov should demonstrate the source of budget for the initial investment as well on-going cost.

If you think Glenhaven Road is dangerous now "you ain’t seen nothing yet"!
A glance at the council's projections for building in North Kellyville,
Rouse Hill and beyond and the thousands of homes being built mean that doubling the number of lanes in Glenhaven Road is going to be totally inadequate!
For the council and state government to allow this development
which will increase traffic flow and congestion, with hundreds of people entering, exiting, dropping off and picking up at all hours, will only add to the road chaos, create much bitterness and result in political consequences. If we don’t act now we will regret it!

There was obviously no due diligence carried out by the executive of the HDMS before the purchase. They have made a major commercial mistake which they will have to explain to their investors. The reality is that the site is too small, the access too dangerous and the traffic flow on Glenhaven road too significant to facilitate such a development. I won’t even go anywhere near amenity of the area.

There is nothing the applicants can do to fix it unless they buy Glenhaven road and block in off at the nearer intersections.

To all u PCs who have commented, have a look at the application in detail, visit the site and then make yr comments. This is nothing about religion, it’s about a bad investment. Don’t bend the truth to cover up an inadequate argument. If it was any other DA with similar implications, the community would have reacted exactly the same.

There is a meeting at entrata restaurant, 630pm Monday 7 May to discuss the DA. All welcome, even PCs but leave your rascist anti WASP persona behind .

Allen

Glenhaven is a quiet, leafy suburb with a mix of semi-rural and large suburban blocks of land and the people of the area have chosen to live here because of these qualities. To allow a development of this size and proportion in the middle of our suburb is unacceptable. In assessing the application will the Sydney Planning Panel make themselves knowledgeable about our area? Will they do their due diligence and visit our area to assess the suitability of their chosen site? To put a 24/7 prayer hall at this location is out of context with the area and will impact greatly to the detriment and loss of amenity for local residents. Choose a different location in a commercially zoned area.

Glenhaven is a beautiful semi rural suburb where many of us are lucky to live. Unfortunately this could all change because of development, which will change the landscape for ever. Glenhaven Road is becoming a nightmare , traffic is often at a stand still and will only get worse with more development at Kellyville and Box Hill. This proposed DA of a mosque is only going to bring more cars from outer suburbs into the area. Unfortunately the reports associated with the DA do not report accurately about the impact the extra cars will have on the area, claiming only 15 people will attend the mosque most days. If this is the case why build a facility this large costing over 7 million? You only have to watch the video on the Hills Muslim Society website to see what this centre will cater for and the scale of the development. Also they state in the DA there is a regular public bus route to service the Mosque. How does one cross the road in peak times to catch the bus without a Zebra crossing or lights, you simply can’t safely. We have already had one death on this road which is one too many.
The community of Glenhaven is predominately christian according to the latest sensus so where is the need? honestly there is no need! There has been no consultation with the community from The Hills Muslim Society and the impact it will have on residents. They have made there own assumptions. A development of this size is not appropriate for a semi rural area it is more suited to a commercial or industrial area.

According to the DA there are separate prayer rooms for men and woman how is this considered inclusive. However even by stating such I would be considered racist, which is not the case. This type of facility is not appropriate for the area, no matter what religion it is. I hope this DA will not be treated differently because of the source, though sadly we live in a world where this is often the case.

We choose to live Glenhaven don’t force us to leave.

I'll say NO NO NO NO NO.....

We need leafy and peaceful neighourhood for living for kids for family for community, not for anything else.

It made us feel horrible to stay!!!

I am totally opposed to the construction of a large religious facility on the corner of Larapinta Ave and Glenhaven Rd, for the following reasons:
TRAFFIC:
With the huge amount of development occurring in Box Hill, Rouse Hill and North Kellyville, the amount of traffic on Glenhaven Road will increase enormously, such that even the planned 4 lanes will be inadequate. There is already a lot of development occurring along Glenhaven Road, and this road cannot cope with any additional traffic burden. I believe the church at 194 Glenhaven Road has applied to extend their premises, and this together with the additional traffic generated by the new retirement village, Glenhaven Public School, and a number of preschools, will cause Glenhaven Road to become totally gridlocked. Add the additional load which will be created by this facility, and you have the recipe for disaster.
LOCAL NEED FOR SUCH A FACILITY:
The number of people of this faith to support a mosque of this size is not supported by the latest census data collected by the ABS. Does this mean that this mosque is intended to service a much greater area, and thus bring in even more traffic?
SUITABILITY FOR THIS LAND:
This is a semi-rural residential area, not a commercial area. The size of this building is out of keeping with the residential nature of Glenhaven. The HDMS should have purchased land in a commercial area, where the activities will not affect local residents. It is probably not too late to onsell this land and purchase in a more suitable location, e.g. the Hargreaves Nursery site. Regardless of the intended use, this site is not suitable for a major development of this size. The HDMS has stated previously that this land is “a great size for onsite parking and future growth”. What future growth? Is the intention to get the initial DA passed, and then proceed to expand.
LOSS OF AMENITY AND LIFESTYLE:
Glenhaven residents will be greatly affected by this proposal – being disturbed by the rituals of this faith in the early hours of the morning, as well as during the day, and the additional noise which will accompany the large number of people using this facility day and night.
LACK OF SEWER:
The lack of sewerage could become a health hazard for surrounding residents. The proposal for a large number of people to use a facility which has no sewer connection could cause problems with overflowing, and will generate additional heavy traffic to facilitate the pump-out trucks.

What a totally inappropriate development ! Do you know how long I have saved & how hard I have worked to live in the area ? I am so glad I didn't buy the house across the road, this is a multi million dollar residential area, Council should be held responsible for any devaluation due to noise or 'presence' to any property. So so so wrong, I will be watching this & castling my vote at the polls based on the decision. This can not be approved, I feel so sorry for the residents living right next door, imagine how they must be feeling, in appropriate development which should be fought all the way.

Glenhaven road is already very busy specially during school hours. Constructing a Mosque with 24X7 service and 5 times per day prayer thing will bring more people from Outside and keep it more busy. The location is across the road from Public school, its a big No. Any big place of worship should be away from local roads and population and definitely not close to schools. Is there any local people from that area who would be attending the mosque? No, All would be coming from far different places, specially on Fridays. Its going to be chaotic . I live on Foxall road, Kellyville and drive via Glenhaven road everyday. There is no way this construction is necessary and required in present demography and situation.

As a resident in Kellyville near Glenhaven. I say big NO of this project. Glenhaven rd is the main road, it is very busy now. If there comes more prayers, it will serious affect residents’s life. Strongly disagree of this application!!!

Glenhaven Road is a quite busy road, joining with Samantha Reilly Dr, quite a few schools sitting close to these two roads. Due to the development of Kellyville and North Kellyville, and an increase of population, an enhancement of traffic load reduces the safety level of residence living near this area, and enhances the travel time dramatically for people going to work/school.
Statistics shows in the local area the Arabic speaker is only 1%. The needs of Worship at 1 Larapinta will come from the other area, additionally, no frequent public transport is available through Glenhaven Road. Hence the build of a Mosque will bring additional traffic across different suburbs, and extra air pollution to this semi rural area.
Council needs to really consider about the atmosphere of this Suburb.

My husband and I moved to Glenhaven 5 years ago to live a quieter and safer life with our young children. Over this time, we have watched Glenhaven Road get busier and busier with traffic coming in from Kellyville and surrounding areas. There are currently telegraph poles still in the middle of the road on Samantha Riley Drive which have been there for 2 years, roundabouts that are not finished and SO much building works going on that it is starting to already impact on our way of life and crush existing and still to be built infrastructure. You are about 10 years behind in infrastructure already. To add this or any other major development onto an already crumbling Glenhaven Road will result in larger scale and more frequent car accidents, pedestrian safety will reduce and the basic community right to live in peace will be destroyed. The reason people move to suburbs like Glenhaven is for a way of life and this development or any type of large scale development will certainly destroy our way of life.
Why is this development being considered in a residential area?
There is no way that our current roads can cope. Can the sewage cope? What plans are in place to accommodate 400+ people going into and coming out of a small lane onto single lane roads. It is already hard to turn out of our streets onto Glenhaven Road.
According to their faith; God ordered Muslims to pray at five set times of day:
Salat al-fajr: dawn, before sunrise.
Salat al-zuhr: midday, after the sun passes its highest.
Salat al-'asr: the late part of the afternoon.
Salat al-maghrib: just after sunset.
Salat al-'isha: between sunset and midnight.
This means there is constant traffic going back and forth every single day of the year on single lane roads. What about Ramadan - that lasts for 30 days - and the volume of people again increases. It is ok to have an “average" on the submission - but that can mean 5 people one day and 1000 people the next...
If there are more vehicles than car spots (such as celebration days) vehicles will end up parking / double parking all up and down Glenhaven Road, again resulting in a dangerous setting for accidents both in vehicles and pedestrians. There is absolutely no way the infrastructure will cope. What about weddings and other special events? What is in place to support that?
This is not a fight about race or faith it is a fight for basic community rights to live in peace, to expect at a minimum that our roads are relatively safe and can cope with traffic. A right to make sure that the beautiful environment we live in is maintained and cherished, a right to know that our sewage systems will cope and a right to our existing way of life.. We all moved here for similar reasons and this development or any other development on such a large scale takes our basic rights away from us. This is not a fight that the community should have to do.. This is our council and local government letting us down on such a major scale.
As a community we will all now have to find the money to fund this fight for years to protect our way of life. Which is extremely wrong on so many levels.

I am truly concerned that a development such as the proposed place of worship at 1 Larapinta Place can even be considered given the current residential surroundings, existing traffic along Glenhaven Road and the shear numbers of people that would transcend into a residential zone at all hours of the day and night. I travel on Glenhaven Road every day at peak times, which is only due to get worse with all the development currently underway at Rouse Hill and Kellyville. The notion of further destroying a rural setting (and the obvious negative environmental impact) by the potential 'widening' of Glenhaven Road is also ludicrous because a development of this size whether it be commercial, residential or place of worship (whatever denomination) should be near OR on an arterial road, with easy access to various modes of public transport and basically somewhere suitable for such a high density dwelling with long operating hours. It cannot be right to build such a development which is essentially a convention centre in a rural setting with inadequate infrastructure and I implore that you re-consider this application for the good of the local residents who are already struggling with the congestion and increased noise over the past number of years due to multi-dwellings being built in and around the area of Kellyville and Rouse Hill.

I'm very happy to see other cultures and religions sharing their faith with us by building their holy places. We can learn a lot from other cultures and we should embrace this. Australia is a diverse and multicultural nation and has thrived immensely because of it.

P.s I've never had problems in the past from other Mosques. In my experience, people of the Islamic faith have always been very kind and friendly to me.

Green light from me!

Our STRONG objection to the proposed development at
1 Larapinta Place Glenhaven 2156

As residents of Glenhaven since 1982 we object to the large development proposed several doors down from where we live
on busy Glenhaven Road.

The proposal not being just a place of worship will consist of the
Following :-

A reception area
Child minding center
Two consultation rooms
Full kitchen
Four class rooms
Office areas
And a secondary Prayer room

It is proposed to have an average of 250 persons for midday prayers and an average of 400 (average note: could mean many more on occasions) persons attending special events, not to mention the month of Ramadan, noise from these events would be an ongoing problem.

It is a similar development to the Hillsong Church which is located in a commercial – industrial SEWERD zone at Bella Vista where there are no traffic problems or noise problems to effect nearby residents.

The ever increasing traffic congestion on Glenhaven Road from residential developments in Kellyville, North Kellyville and Box Hill added to this proposed development will only add to further traffic congestion in the area. Glenhaven road is mediocre at best, imagine cars banked up waiting to turn into Laripinta Place? Presently at certain times of the day traffic is bumper to bumper now.
I note there will only be 116 car spaces provided indicating to me there will be many cars parking on narrow Larapinta & Glenhaven roads which would be a traffic hazard.

With so many people visiting this place of worship, for consultation, food preparation, child minding, education & administration where will all the effluent go we wonder, as there is no sewerage to this area.

Our part of Glenhaven is a quiet rural area and this proposed development apart from being huge is way out of character with the area and should be located similar to where the Hillsong Church is located … away from residents and busy roads.

We thoroughly oppose this Development Application

As residents on Glenhaven Rd we're concerned about the additional congestion and related safety concerns, both vehicular and pedestrian, approval of this application would create. The (long overdue) improvements to the entirety of Glenhaven Rd should be completed before any further commercial scale building takes place. Resizing a road AFTER you've just increased it's traffic count is simply poor resource management.

The conclusions made in both the Traffic Impact and Environmental Assessments do not factor in the rapid population growth of the surrounding suburbs nor consider the effect of larger than projected 'regular traffic' increases (or increased congregation sizes either) in the near future.

There are already 3 major choke points in Glenhaven Road: the Bannerman roundabout, Glenhaven shops & school and Old Northern Road itself. Adding another one will only make future upgrades more costly in both time And money.

Even the Glenhaven shops, with barely 20 parking spaces, causes traffic disruptions (and accidents) with turning vehicles. Combined with school traffic, this area of Glenhaven Road hits peak saturation very quickly. It can sometimes take us over a minute to get out of our driveway.

There are so many more appropriate locations in the Hills for a development such as this which can provide much better existing infrastructure.

We strongly object to the mosque development. Firstly it is such a large development that is unnecessary. If it really is purely for worship why is it asking for so much land and building it so grand as if it's making a statement to the hills community or to Australia?
Also mosque unlike churches have followers flooding in and out of the mosque several times a day over long periods of time for prayers. This means increasing unnecessary traffic, pollution, noise pollution and taking up prolonged parking spots which should be used for residents.
Having worked in both Auburn and Lakemba my self for over 6 years, I have personally experienced the horrible traffic and illegal parkings near mosque. This will be a headache not only for residents but for councils too.
A mosque that is asking 24/7 operation is bound to increase neighbouring complaints which will involve police, wasting their precious time and resources.
Please do not approve this as once approved there is no turning back. There are many other existing mosque that can be used instead.

Regards

Vanessa

Agreeing to a mosque this size, with access 24 hours 7 hours a day, disregarding every rule council has set for the hills district is giving into Muslim demands and allowing them to have their way.
It may appear to be a place of religion but it will become a social event. It will be equivalent to a 24/7 pub! Allocating for 400 people which I'm sure will multiply by the time it's built.

What they are asking for with this mosque is ridiculous and it's a slap to the council and Australia's government face. They are acting as if they sit on the throne and need to build a pyramid to show their status to the country / world.

Good Morning.

I have great concerns regarding the location of the Proposed 24/7 Mosque on the Corner of Glenhave Road and Larapinta Road. Personally I am not concerned with what actually goes on inside the facility, rather that the patterns of useage and hours of operation and volume of visits over a 24/7 timeframe and its impact on the wider community. Of particular concern are safety of ingress and egress, increased traffic on already overburdened roads and loss of amenity of surrounding established residential property owners.

Lack of Infastructure on the Property and Immediate Surrounding Area: No sewer, No gutters, No stormwater - replacing essentially greenspace with 116 carspaces and significant buildings resulting in increased water run off. Overflow parking - it is realistic to expect that usage will grow, 116 carspaces for 400 people. Parking spilling onto Larapinta Pl and Glenhaven Road where there is no side shoulder and 1 lane each is frankly dangerous. Glenhaven Road has already claimed 2 lives in the last 3 years. That is 2 people were hit by cars and died as a result. Meeting times will clash with AM and PM peakhour on Glenhaven Road, resulting in dangerous ingress and egress in and out of the facility. Truck deliveries into the commercial kitchen, egress and ingress.

The is NO Public Transport - there will be no choice but to drive and to drive along Glenhaven Road.

Loss of Amenity - Adjoining and immediate existing residents - local residents will face 24/7 ingress and egress of the property, compounding early morning at 5.30am and evening, vastly increasing traffic levels into Larpinta Pl, overspill in front of properties along Larapinta and also Glenhaven Road. Noise from ingress/egress and it is realistic to expect that 400 people coming and going will be noisy. Truck deliveries into commercial kitchen and rubbish removal services for 400 people. This will create reduced access to properties, increased noise into a quiet suburban street. Loss of natural aspect to a 116 carpark and substantial buildings, great than that of a residential building.

I believe that any 24/7 Facility, this could be a church, a 24/7 gym or a Macdonalds or a Pub has no place located in a residential area when such a facility would so greatly benefit being located into a Business Park where there is access to state of the art Public Transport (such as Castle Hill, Bella Vista, Rouse Hill - all located within the immediate area), like Hillsong and Dayspring and the Mosque at Marsden Park where it is supported by appropriate infastructure on site and within the immediate area. It is simply a matter of appropriate planning so that all residents of the Hills can live in peace and harmony and large facilities of a 24/7 nature are positioned to facilitate this. It is inappropriate to approve a large scale development such as this in an area clearly lacking any infastructure to support it, when it can be located very locally in a Business Park.

I also have grave concerns about the appropriateness on the site, given the traffic along Glenhaven Road and it's RU6 Rural transition zoning. Traffic along Glenhaven Road in both directions is already at a standstill during peak times, constant at other times and only going to increase as more residential properties are developed in North Kellyville, Box Hill etc. The proposed development does not serve the interests of the vast majority of local residents (the 2016 Census Religious Affiliation statistics confirm this), and to have such a large scale, commercial operation nestled in alongside residents would not represent good planning.

As mentioned already there are other places or worship that have been developed recently in appropriate locations; surely Council should be setting aside areas in the nearby North West growth corridor for such developments that are better suited for large scale, 24/7 commercial operations, and have the necessary infrastructure in place?

I just hope that an appropriate decision is made on this proposal with reference to the suitability of the site, and weighing up the benefit versus cost it will bring to local residents.

Looking over these comments, it is interesting reading everyone's views. I for one am against this development for many reasons - but the main & important reason is because of the traffic congestion it will cause on Glenhaven Road. Everyone keeps going on about how the Retirement Village (Arcare) got approved & also the child care center on the corner of Bannerman Road &/or the Church across the road from Glenhaven Public School with the overhaul that it recently had, and I agree that it may come across as unfair & somewhat Islamophobic that the community is opposed to the Mosque but everything else gets approved. Let me be clear when I say that had I have known about the Child Care Center I would have objected to that as well for the simple reason being that there is going to be MAJOR issues with people pulling out of that center onto Glenhaven Road verses cars coming up & or through that roundabout. My child used to go the Kindalin daycare center up the top end of Glenhaven Road going back 7 years ago when the traffic thoroughfare wasn't too bad but even back in the day I had to floor-it pulling out! With the Arcare Center, I drive past it every day. There is no impact of traffic going in & out of there and same with the Church across the road from the school - Sunday mornings are the only time I am aware of the traffic and I can honestly say there is no massive impact because its on the weekend. This Mosque however, (based on the traffic report submitted) is a loose indication of the average amount of people attending and reality is there will be far more than really indicated. Along with this, the acoustic issues that will come from the Mosque include amplified sound systems along with Ramadan. There are so many more reasons to object to this development but none are related to race or religion itself. Glenhaven is a beautiful semi-rural suburb not a commercial suburb and a development of that size and magnitude just doesn't belong there. Hopefully we can find a suitable area for the Mosque as it is important that this Mosque can be built for them too.

Having been a Hills resident for nearly 15 years, I’m so very disappointed with the way our lovely rural community has changed in such a relatively short time. I moved here with my young family to enjoy a peaceful semi-rural life. Due to the huge amount of building occurring it looks as though our dream of a quiet country home is gone. (An example is the huge multi-storey buildings being constructed near Towers). I currently struggle to get to work daily along Glenhaven Rd and can only imagine the increase of traffic congestion and the loss of a rural dream. I believe that this application should not progress in this location but would be more appropriate in one of the many business parks, example Hillsong, where more people could access the area from the Hills and a call to prayer would not be a disruption to residents. Please council slow down and don’t think of profits but let Australians have a dream of a quiet home to raise our children, if not in the Hills then where.?..

I am strongly against the proposal of building a mosque in Larapinta Place GLENHAVEN. I bought a house in this area and moved in last year. I hope it will be a safe family place as it is now.

Do not forget, on 2 October 2015, a police employee, Mr Cheng, was shot at close range in the back of the head as he was leaving work at the NSW Police Headquarters in Parramatta. The man who fired the shot received the weapon at a Parramatta Mosque.

Please refer to the news for details.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-19/curtis-cheng-accused-guilty-plea-terrorist-act/8542490

I just wonder a safe place to raise a family. Stop it!

At least, you should publicly consult all related residents before approval!

Hello everyone in Glenhaven
As you probably know I started this commentary a year ago when I accidentally found out about this development application. My opposition was not to religious diversity but to the inappropriateness of a zoning approval for such a large infrastructure project on a 2-lane road which cannot adequately cope with existing traffic flow let alone hundreds more vehicles a day and each and every day and night!
Glenhaven Road is just ‘more accidents to happen’!
I assume that this development application will go to the state government as it’s over 5-million dollars who will no doubt approve a ‘minority’ application because of identity policies!
So what do we do? Be vocal or not and just play it safe and accept?
Do we safeguard our community and children from road carnage?
Well, I for one, after a long time voting Liberal, will/ did not vote (council and future state) for them. The Hills culture has been destroyed, I guess this is progress?
I did get a reply from a lovely lady from BHSC who said that there was much more opposition to the Anngrove mosque and people do indeed get used to it! She was fairly sure the Glenhaven mosque would go ahead!
We have lost!!

What can I say or do?
Apparently heard that there are apartments going up on Glenhaven road!!
I think the road needs to be a freeway!
Robyn

I am against a Mosque being built in Glenhaven. The traffic already on Glenhaven Road is horrendous. Peak hour and weekends is a nightmare. If this application goes ahead the amount of traffic to this area will increase greatly. We already have a huge influx of traffic coming on line from just the bottom of Glenhaven road from North Kellyville. The area cannot cope with all this traffic let alone creating more. Also the objection of noise and pollution should be taken into account. I myself live off Green Road and find it very difficult at times to get out of the estate I live in. Traffic congestion needs to be taken into account before anyone rules on this application. It is not a life threatening event if this application fails.

Seconded, with all of the above reasons especially with traffic, impact on way of life, customs and values.

I object to the proposed development at 1 Larapinta Place, Glenhaven due to the negative impact it will have on the neighbourhood (traffic, parking, noise and environment).

The document “Updated Parking & Traffic Impact Assessment” plans for one car space for every five people attending. This is the bare minimum described in “The Hills Development Control Plan (DCP) 2012” but is not realistic estimate of the number of cars that will visit the facility.

In other words, it is assuming that there will be an average of 5 people in each car. A more realistic figure would be around 2 people per car. Using this second approach, we see that the planned provisions for parking is inadequate for even the weekly service on Friday, let alone special events.

The same unrealistic numbers have also been used when modelling traffic. Once again, using a realistic estimate of the number of cars involved would show a far greater impact on the neighbourhood.

The modelling used in the proposal may have followed the DCP guidelines but it does not provide information that helps people see what the true impact will be on Glenhaven.

A development of this scale should not proceed at this address.

Why would the council even consider this proposal? Surely this development would be better suited away from residential housing.
In addition, to the increased road congestion, Glenhaven has a large population of nursing homes in the area. Surely these residents have the right to live out their "last years" in peaceful surrounds without the disturbance of additional noise of a 24hr Mosque and function centre. Having lived in Singapore (a few kilometers from a Mosque) I recall only too vividly being woken daily by the 5am call to prayer chanted through loud speakers not to mention the continued call to prayer though out the day. Do the council intend to ensure that appropriate noise restrictions are put in place and if so who is going to police it?
This suburb is already under immense stress coping with the day to day traffic congestion in that area. My son attends the Glenhaven preschool on Bannerman Rd and the traffic around this area is already at capacity most days, why would you add to this, unless you are going to address the current issues. Are residents supposed to accept a few hundred more cars without a bat of an eyelid?
Please wake up councillors, this has never been about race or religion, its about the right development in the right area and protecting the rights of the majority of residents (who will be impacted by this development) against the monetary influence of a cashed up developer.

Anthony

No No No to any kind of commercial site.

We have been Living in Glenhaven now for more then 20years and less then 500meters of the proposed site, the road is so dangerous now, trying to get out and even get into our driveway can take more then 1min at peak times, and that is to take a risk and cut into traffic, an accident Waiting to happen again!! a fertility has already happened on this road.
I do not know who has come up with the time of 15sec, but that is totally untrue.

The road is over congested already and would definitely not be able to cope with extra traffic.

The road is in desperate need for a major upgrade now and that is without a large commercial site to add to it.

Without an upgrade of Glenhaven Rd, the approval of such a large site, will definitely not work.

This is a semi rural area, it is not catered for a large commercial sites of any kind.

There are homes all round this site, to allow a Commercial site to have 24 hour access is ludicrous.
We have a young family that need there sleep to function for school. To allow 24hour access is crazy. It is a semi rural area don't forget that.

Please reject this project! Please!
If this project approved, the hills will no longer safe, beautiful and convinient suburb!
The transport to city is already terrible and if this project approved, it will be much terrible!
I living in the hills for more than three years. I love this suburb, because people here is nice, education, environment is all good! With the train station will be ready soon, the hills will have a great future! However, if this project approved, all the things will be changed and I would consider to leave the hills. The Hill council, please consider, if you want to the suburb became second Macquarie or second Muslim suburb? If you want house price increase, please reject the project!

You will forever ruin a beautiful green, semi rural place like Glenhaven. I can’t believe this was even considered!! Glenhaven is no a place for a mosque & why are there so many mosques in Sydney anyways.. I have no concerns with any other religion but this brings trouble with it .. there are young families living here so stop this right now ..

There are options available for praying at Blacktown and Marsden park, and I really dont see a point building a place of worship where no. of worshipers are less or even close to none.

With the new submission re reduced parking spaces won’t this will only add to the congestion in both Glenhaven Rd and Larapinta Place?

There is hardly any Muslim population in this area so I don’t see why the mosque has to be built here. The appeal of this the glenhaven area and surrounding suburbs is that it is a quiet, quaint semi-rural area. This development will only make the area busier and more congested. THE LOCALS DO NOT WANT IT and there are PLENTY of suburbs further west/south west that have a higher Islamic population and can handle the extra development

There is a lot to support the suggestion of putting a Mosque/Church as close as possible to the population it will serve.

I wonder how many persons that will preside on the NSW Joint Regional Planning Panels actually live in the local area of Glenhaven that will be considering and deliberating on this D.A.?
Hmm?

It is good to see diversity in the community and welcome it. There is obviously a clear need for the place of worship. If other religions have established a public place of worship in Glenhaven then it is only reasonable that the Hills District Muslim Society (HDMS) are also given the same opportunity.

The HDMS are a group of peaceful people who strive to do good in the community. You will see this conveyed on their Facebook. They have worked diligently to acquire a property in an area zoned for a public place of worship.

The issue of increased traffic has been raised. This might be an issue for the Friday prayer and the night prayers during the month of Ramadan. However, both are outside the peak traffic times in the area. If traffic is an existing issue, then perhaps an opportunity for local government to improve Glenhaven Rd.

Another issue raised is the increase in noise. The expected noise is likely minimal as prayers are conducted within the building that is located a reasonable distance from the surrounding properties. With suitable fencing and landscaping the excess noise (if any) could be further minimised.

Therefore, it is my hope that the proposal is treated positively, or at least given a fair assessment.

Hello
I think the point to the mosque opposition on glenhaven road is the site/Road/fracture is not suitable.

Already too much traffic.. and another one.... big NO Please

Big NO to this DA

The traffic on Glenhaven road is already often slow moving. Surely the developer should contribute sufficiently to upgrades considering mostly residents are in the area with many less cars per acre on the road. As a place of worship brings more traffic then the planning regulations should reflect the amount of traffic to costs of road upgrades given the road is currently already over used. Put simply more visitors than a residence should equate to higher contributions to upgrades and upgrades should be completed before opening. Buying in a rural area is significantly cheaper than buying in an industrial area where roads are meant to be built to sustain more traffic. Given the savings when purchasing, and the tax not due when operating surely these developers can contribute to upgrades prior to opening for business/ prayer.

During the Planning Panel Meeting last 27 Sept 2018, a senior religious speaker for the HDMS said that they have over 800 members. In respect of this 800 plus members - are these men only or families; or men and women only; or men, women and children? Given the nature of this religious practice to separate men over women, it would be essential to determine what is the exact basis of the estimated 800 plus members. If only men or families, then the true numbers of members may be even more than double or triple this 800 plus figure – 1,600 or 2,400 people or more as they ought to include women and children as they are all potential attendees to the proposed facilities? Also, Hills Shire Council assessed the size of the building proposed in the former amended DA to be one that would accommodate 1,900 people. I understand that the amended size is only slightly smaller than previously proposed. Moreover, the HDMS website and agenda clearly envisage growing member numbers and to service all their muslims followers in the whole North-west area, far greater than just the Glenhaven locality.

Estimated population attendee figures are crucial in the proposed revised DA analysis as they form the very basis of so many crucial considerations such as – size of development to accommodate estimated prayer attendees, car-parking requirements and traffic congestion issues, adequate waste water, general waste and sewerage requirements, noise and lighting requirements etc. Therefore, it is essential that estimated attendees, frequency and patterns number are reliable, objectively determined and independently verified.

In the Planning Panel Meeting, many speakers on behalf of the HDMS Applicant could not understand why many of the speakers against the amended DA mentioned that the proposal was commercial. It is true that the facility proposed in the proposed revised DA is not commercial. However, in many ways, its likely effect on locals and the nearby Community and social footprint is far worse.

Take opening hours and days open for instance – the Prayer facilities proposed hours of operation are from 5.00am to 10.00 pm, 7 days a week for the entire year. The vast majority of commercial businesses (even most MacDonalds stores) are not open for such long hours, 7 days a week, and close for at least Christmas and Easter days during the year. Even Sydney Airport has a curfew and is shut before 6.00 am (and after 11.00 pm). Almost all commercial enterprises located in Shopping Centres or in a suitable commercial zoning are not open for such long hours, nor 7 days a week for the entire year.

If we look at people visitations, as mentioned above, the HDMS Applicant’s amended Stanbury Traffic Planning Report Table 2 sets out the “Maximum instantaneous number of people on-site” as follows
- Monday to Thursday having total population for each day as 370 people;
- Friday having total population for each day as 570 people; and
- Saturday & Sunday total population for each day as 300 people

Based on just these regular visitation figures, it is noted that, during a regular week there would be 2,650 people visiting the facilities. These figures do not include Special Services. The HDMS Applicant’s amended Stanbury Traffic Planning Report Table 3 shows that during the month of Ramadan, additional Evening Prayer Service from Mondays to Sundays can have a maximum of 200 people. If 200 people daily, then, over the 31 days of the month of Ramadan, this would be 6,200 people (31 x 200 people)?

I submit that most commercial businesses would love to have such numbers of client visits. However, if they do, they are located in suitably appropriate commercial or industrial zoned areas that are appropriate to the context, demands, volume of movements and have suitable infrastructure and facilities to accommodate such large commercial demands and large footprint of size, scale and intensity of operations.

It is not appropriate that this proposed Prayer pseudo-commercial facility with its large demands and large footprint of size, scale and intensity of operations
be situated in a residential zoned area, let alone the rural residential zoning in which the proposed development is located, with rural objectives and transitional objectives.

For the Hills Shire Council and the DA Planning Panel determining authority to appropriately assess the proposed DA, it is essential that proposed attendee figures, patterns and frequencies are reliable, accurate and objectively determined. Moreover, the HDMS anticipates rapid increases in members in the coming years, and to service their followers in the whole Hills District, wanting a place to call "home" - all puts great difficulty in coming up with suitably accurate and reliable attendee figures, patterns and frequencies.
On the matter of accurate and reliable population usage figures and accurate HDMS membership figures, it is noted that:
• The HDMS are Sunni Muslim who live and work in the Hills District of Sydney (Source: https://www.launchgood.com/project/build_a_masjid_in_the_hills__sydney ) ;
• Islam consists of three main groups: (1) the majority Sunni; (2) the minority Shi’a and (3) the smaller Sufi sect (Source: https://www.dss.gov.au/sites/default/files/files/settle/taking/building_bridges.pdf)
• Sunni Islam is the largest denomination of Islam followed by nearly 90% of the world’s Muslims (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunni_Islam)
• The number of Islamic people in the Hills Shire in 2011 and 2016 were 3,332 and 4,044 respectively (Source: ABS: Census of Population and Housing 2011 and 2016; https://profile.id.com.au/the-hills/religion ). This represents a 21.4% increase in the 5 year period.

Inferences:

1. Since (i) the HDMS are Sunni Muslims who live and work in the Hills District; and (ii) Sunnis form the overwhelming majority of the Groups within the religion of Islam; and (iii) there are 4,044 Islamic people in the Hills Shire (2016 Census), it would seem unlikely that there would be only 800 or so members (in 2018), based on these 2016 Census figures. If we were to use a far lesser proportion, say 50%, then we would expect 2,022 (4,044 x 50%) Sunni Muslims in the Hills Shire (as at 2016 Census).
2. Given the considerable rate of increase (21.4%) in the number of Islamic people in the Hills Shire over the 2011 to 2016 Census period this would, again, create considerable doubt as to the accuracy of the HDMS having only 800 or so members in 2018.
3. If there are 4,044 Islamic people in the Hills Shire in 2016 and, even adopting the (unlikely) 800 members figure (2018), assuming the same 21.4% rate of increase over 5 years would mean that there would be an extra 171 members (total 971 members) in 2023.

Conclusion:

Using the above information and reasoning, the reliability and accuracy of the HDMS’s stated 800 plus members is highly questionable and appear to be considerably underestimated. Therefore, the population usage figures the HDMS Applicant has put forward in the proposed revised DA would be highly unlikely to be reliable nor accurate.

The HDMS Applicant’s own survey of actual Friday Prayer Meetings shows from 179 to 213 attendees, averaging 202 people attending a Friday prayer meeting at their present Community Centre. It is not consistent with their aim to gain larger prayer facilities and service their growing community if they go to all the time, efforts and huge costs of this proposed Place of Worship to limit themselves to a maximum of 250 people attending on site at any one time. According to the HDMS Applicant’s own figures, they currently have an average of 202 people attending Friday Prayer meeting, so in this context, it would not be sensible nor reasonable for them to limit people attending to a 250 maximum level at the proposed revised DA facility.

Glenhaven, is such a nice and beautiful piece of nature. Feel sorry for the residents now. Hope this is never approved and hope sanity prevail. Once this is approved. this part of hills will be a nightmare.

This is over a year. Where is the approval process at?

I can’t believe this is being seriously considered. The land is R6 rural fringe in what is a residential area. I STRONGLY oppose this development in THIS location. There are other sites I would consider more suitable. Eg The timber yard that’s just gone on the market at Dural. It’s currently a commercial property. Serviced by several major roads. Transport provider right there with the bus company across the road.

I drive through glen haven every day to and from my place of employment in Hornsby, and am wanting to purchase a small property in Glenhaven (I want my kids to live somewhere leafy, and quiet, pleasant), and am looking at some of the ones for sale near this proposed development.

To be honest, this development scares me, it’s a reason I haven’t bought yet. And that statement has nothing to do with the denomination proposed as I have friends and colleagues that are Muslim and they are some of the nicest people you will meet. But it is the sheer volume of people, and use, and the traffic, and the assumptions in the reports.

That end of Glen haven road (being single lane both directions) struggles in both morning and afternoon peaks. How is it going to go when “116 official cars” stop traffic to turn across Glenhaven road into a gated entrance on either glen haven road or Larrapinta place??? With all 116 cars wanting to get there in say a half hour window before a prayer session.

What is their plan for an overflow car park in peak times eg Ramadan? Larapinta place couldn’t support any substantial number of cars, that leaves parking on the almost non existent shoulder of Glenhaven road. That road is narrow and I wouldn’t want to be the driver, park and then open the door to get out.... that’s a fatality just waiting to happen.

Which consultancy company confirmed the expectation that patrons will travel there in cars with 5 people in them. How is that a real expectation to verify the validity of 116 cars spaces being suitable??

They list public transport as a major factor for their choice of this site. What public transport?? There is no Glenhaven train station, and the only busses I’ve seen are school busses? Have they got an investment plan for busses like Hillsong??

So since that end of Glenhaven road has no sewer system, what’s the plan for a massive septic system for the effluent of such a high use facility??

Or as there is no stormwater facility either, what will happen to all the water caught in the drainage system for a 116 space car park? Approx 2000m2 (116 spots x 3m width x 5m length and round up for driveways- and I’ve been generous this should easily be 2500m2) catches a lot of water very quickly in a heavy down pour. Will it be piped as run off straight onto glenhaven road?? Or into another detention tank? If a detention tank, then what is the plan for it??

So that’s now a septic tank and a storm water tank for this sort of volume in a high occupancy site, on a high traffic road??? Where is all this fluid going?

I work in the energy efficiency industry, and buildings like this need pretty decent air cond systems for big spaces like this that don’t stay conditioned, but are ran to order wanting decent peak current draw from the grid. Can the local grid handle the extra current draw of a building this size?

Another concern is the numbers of members quoted by HDMS. 800 members and growing. Growing at what rate? Real growth and target growth needs to be specified. but for a religion concerned with praying 5 times a day, they only expect 250 people at the facility at one time? So where are the other current 550 members going??? Humans have a tendency to cluster together, particularly minority groups. Yet only 800 members? How many other muslims in the hills, I think census data showed about 4000 in last census will go to the new shiny Mosque and the HDMS numbers surge post build?

What is a typical day for a facility like this? I keep seeing references to a “call to prayer” and others have voiced concerns about the noise from a facility like this. Are we talking Bells? Or audio speakers with a tone 5 times a day??? One of the properties I really like is 600m down Glenhaven road. Will it be retrofitted at someone else’s cost with double glazing? I like to sleep past 5am ( proposed opening time)??? I’m also not a night owl, I’m usually in bed and asleep by 10pm, my kids are only young and are usually asleep at 8pm as well (whole house asleep before closing time). Oh wait, this is proposed to be a 24/7 site in a residential rural Ru6 zone...

I’ve spoken to hills shire council several times about what can be done as Ru6 for a house. And it sure seems like I couldn’t do a development like this, so how does this get to this point??..

It just doesn’t fit that area, it doesn’t have the infrastructure to support it without crushing everyone else, it’s just not smart sustainable development. Please look somewhere else

Having recently purchased a property in Larapinta Place -specifically because the area is quiet, peaceful & abounding in the natural features of bird life, goannas, kangaroos etc. - we object strongly to the proposal if building such a ‘place of worship.’ The street is a cul- de- sac - designed to limit the amount of traffic that passes through a residential area. As such- the reason that many have purchased within Larapinta Place.

There are endless other places available for such an application. I have taught Healthcare in Indonesia - and am very aware of the level of noise & activity associated with mosques & how they function. The amount of additional traffic in the Larapinta area would create havoc - especially as the street is a cul-de-sac,containing a mere 7 homes. It’s already very dangerous & difficult to turn into & out of Larapinta Place, from Glenhaven Rd. Especially when attempting to take resident children to & from school each day!

A mosque within the centre of all that existing difficulty with traffic would only serve to create horrendous problems. The area is septic & the additional demands for efficient facilities, would create health problems. There would only be street parking for a handful of cars (at the expense of residents whose visitors would then be unable to park.)

Based on my experience of teaching Healthcare in Indonesia over several years - I understand the constant ‘busyness’ associated with mosque lifestyle. The constant ‘calls for prayer’ several times every day & the constant congestion relating to people & traffic - would completely destroy the tranquil nature of what the residents have secured by choice & investment - over many years of supporting Council.

To build a mosque in Glenhaven, is simply not necessary, when there are countless other choices available - in appropriate commercial areas! Please allow sound judgement to prevail!

It takes us almost 40mins every morning to drop kids to school (it should be less than 10 mins) Glenhaven RD CANNOT afford additional traffic. Please seriously consider this planning.